Nothing to see here (a.k.a. Kile's Monday rant)
I don't have a lot of fancy schmancy links to bible verses and news stories today. I just have a simple observation. I have long understood that Christians are supposed to rejoice when we suffer for the cause of Christ or suffer simply for being a Christian. Why is it then, that now that our culture often times goes so far afield and oftentimes openly villifies believers that Christians so often come off as whiners. In other words, why do we become so indignant when things don't go our way. We rant and rave about America being a Christian nation and being founded on Christian values and it so often sounds like we are demanding that our culture cater to us. I guess it's just much easier to legislate morality rather than trying to change the world by exemplifying Christ. After all it seems that we have failed miserably at letting people know that we are His by our love. Now we let people know that we are His by our voting block.
posted by Kile and Em at 10:39 AM
9 Comments:
I've visted this post a few times, and have had a comment typed out, but I delete it.
The reason I didn't post my comment a few days ago is because I thought maybe I was misunderstanding what you're trying to say. So maybe I'll just ask first to be sure.
Are you saying Christians shouldn't vote, and we shouldn't stand up for our beliefs? And that instead, we should be showing love and not be involved in the politic of our nation?
Someone put a comment on my blog today that bothers me because I'm wondering now what our role is America. Their comment had to do with me filing a lawsuit, instead of just being concerned with salvation.
Why have lawyers and judges and Congress if the only ones that can get anything accomplished are anti-Christian people?
I don't think we are a Christian nation. I think we're a nation with Christians in it.
Sharks,
Recently at church we were studying the reactions of the various characters to Jesus surrounding his crucifixion in Mark. Except for the Roman centurion and maybe Joseph of A, everyone misunderstood the call of Jesus. The Apostles were awaiting the revolution, arguing over who would hold the highest office in the new kingdom, and they ran on the eve of "defeat." The Romans considered him a failed insurrectionist seeking to throw off empirial control. The Jews saw him as the same threat, or promise, as a potential military and political threat.
Of course, we know now that He intended no such kingdom, no such strategy. His liberation transcends politics and power, and his economy is in love and relationships.
I think what Kile means here is that American Christians have been tempted to think that the Kingdom needs the state. Has the American church been led to believe that we actually are at WAR with non-believers such that we must seek to prevail over them in politics, war and economy? Instead, are we not called to be reconciled to them as we all are reconciled to God.
Instead of fighting a culture war, why are we not being salt and light in our culture, glorifying God by the strength of our witness and lives, not by our bellicose rhetoric and brutal political strategy.
Kile and I both are lawyers, and elsewhere on this blog you will find declarations of politics and even theories of how Christians should interact and participate with the State.
Even so, as we seek to shape policy, our goal should be to glorify God and to tend to His mission to the poor, vulnerable and disenfranchised, not seeking our own preferences and power and ascendancy through affluence.
"Instead of fighting a culture war, why are we not being salt and light in our culture, glorifying God by the strength of our witness and lives, not by our bellicose rhetoric and brutal political strategy."
If we don't fight, aren't we telling God we don't care about what kind of laws are set in our country? You know if we don't fight, there's going to be anti-God laws in all the states.
I'm not saying it's right, or wrong. I'm saying I don't know God's will. I don't know why He made lawyers, judges, or governments if everything is just going to be corrupt. Christian lawyers like the ACLJ and you guys may as well stop practicing then.
It seems if we don't do something, we're going to be walked on. Is that what God wants?
My entire life was turned upside down by corruption and I'm trying to fight back. Maybe God isn't pleased with my fight, nor any other Christian out there trying to stand for what they believe in. (Including the ACLJ)
If that's the case.. why does He have His people in the legal field then? Maybe Christians shouldn't be lawyers if all we can do is show love but not get involved.
How does God feel about Christians being in lawsuits? (other than what it says about suing other Christians)
It's very discouraging to be up against people who have no fear of lying and twisting things. It makes me wonder if there is any justice before the Lord returns.
Sharks,
It seems to me that your personal situation has allowed for a very subjective reading of both KT's original post and JRB's reply to you. You are asking questions of this post that it never seeks to answer. As JRB said, they, as well as the non-legal minds like myself, have tried to struggle through some of these very issues throughout the years in other posts on this blog.
I think that one thing you would need to understand about this crew is that we don't simply see salvation as getting people tickets to heaven when they die, but as a bringing the lordship of God to earth now. Salvation, as imagined in the Christian Scriptures, is much more holistic than that. We must join in God's work of bringing salvation through living under the lordship of Christ ourselves, through our care for the poor, disenfranchised, marginated, and vulnerable. Obviously, as you will see if you peruse other posts on this blog, each of these has the potential to have great implications for Christian enagagement with the powers.
Ultimately, I would say that the situation you describe is a reminder that governmental systems are one more of the numerous principalities and powers that are still unredeemed, that strive to preserve their own existence at all cost. The Christian role in engaging the powers is always complex, delicate turf on which to tread. Whatever our idea of how to engage them, we must do so with the humility of the one who chose not to exploit his position for his own sake, but humbled himself to the point of death on a cross. This call to engage the powers, but as a cruciform people is a large discussion indeed.... I'm getting dangerously close to preaching. Breaking into sermonic form is not my intent, so I am going to stop typing and spend time with my family.
I'm curious though, since I don't know, who are you and how did you stumble across our humble little blog here? Just curious. I tend to struggle with disembodied internet dialogue more than others here, likely because of my concern for the ways it has the potential to support the creation of neo-Gnostic e-personalities. So, I liek to ask who's visiting and commenting on this blog.
Sharks,
I think we need to agree on our terms.
"Fight." I do think we are called to fight as Christians, but the Lord calls us to define the fight and its objectives differently. When Jesus "fought" it was not His own behalf but on behalf of those who were weaker, victimized and marginalized. We are taught to seek justice, liberate the prisoner and care for the oppressed. Yes, we should fight for those things.
As we fight, though, we must be mindful of identifying our "enemy." Our enemy is not the person or group who would attack us, who would attach the Church or who are anti-Christian or anti-religious. Our enemies, as they are, are those who perpetrate injustice against the weak, who enslave the prisoner and who exploit the oppressed.
Our tactics, however, are not their tactics. We not do fight fire with fire or evil with evil. We do not attack with violence. We fight with truth, with ideas, with words, with witness, with compassion and advocacy. From time to time, we sue and are sued, and in this beautiful Constitutional Republic, we can trust the the Rule of Law is a powerful means to engage the battle.
Last, I believe deeply and dearly that God does not need us to defend Him. I can think of many unjust laws, but I can think of very few "anti-God" laws in this nation. Be reminded, though, that Christ and His Church thrived and grew within the utmost violent and unjust oppression and persecution.
God does not need us to defend Him against bad laws, and He does not need America to thrive as a "Christian nation" to accomplish His will in His kingdom. Our God's lordship, sovereignty, will, power and grace do not depend on the laws of the United States of America.
As Christians, Christian lawyers, teachers and politicians, we should care less about defending an imaginary "Christian nation" from "anti-God" laws, and we should care more about using the laws and government to take care of the poor, oppressed, marginalized and vulnerable. For those reasons should we fight politically and legally but not to seek our own ends.
Also, I have read your blog a bit and believe that a suit to seek remedies and justice for yourself in the face of corruption can be a very godly, useful and righteous act.
In our system, our laws and systems improve when we confront and illuminate corruptions and injustice, so your cause can serve to promote justice in the system, to alleviate injustice for others in the future and hold accountable institutions that must be accountable to us.
You may be in this fight "for the principle of the thing," for the gratification of fighting, in the hopes of shedding some light. If you want to win, and I mean prevail in court and get a verdict in your favor, I think you need to consider two things.
1. Suing the United States government is a very complicated job. Not only is the U.S. government probably the most sophisticated client in the world with the world's largest law firm at its disposal, but the process of litigation, the rules of civil procedure, the process of discovery and investigation and challenging the impenetrable bureaucracy are complicated, detailed and esoteric, for a reason.
2. For those reasons, you need a lawyer. The system is complicated. The laws are complex. Litigation is all consuming. For better or worse, to ensure justice and to contemplate the range of human and corporate action, the law must be big and complex. Justice is not simple, and it is not slow. Lawyers work for a reason, and Christian lawyers work at all levels and all sides to promote honesty and integrity.
I have defended government entities against pro se plaintiffs. If you want to win, you need to get a lawyer.
Thank you both for your responses. I've printed them because I want to understand them better. I don't mind the "preaching".
Eric, I didn't mean to ask questions beyond the post's means. I had left the site several times without posting my questions, but I kept coming back to this post.
I probably shouldn't have commented and I wish I would have kept moving on now. Sorry about intruding on your blog.
I found your site by looking in Google searching for lawyer sites that talk about God.
I don't want to be in the situation I'm in. But I'm here, and I can't get out. So all I was trying to do was find someone out there that loves God, and talks about him, and understands courts.
I catch a lot of critism for being a Christian and being in litigation, and I suppose I was trying to find out if maybe I am in the wrong, as a Christian, to be pursuing the things I'm involved in.
jrb, I can't get a lawyer. This case got so complex that no one will take it now. It didn't start out that way. My original lawsuit exposed corruption I didn't know existed, but it was too late for me to back out. I had to keep going forward, and it just snowballed when other corporations jumped in to stop me from getting a contract.
That's why I found your blog. I was looking for hope that God has His people in the legal field, and that some how, everything will be ok.
It's bad enough to be a pro se litigant in a situation where they are despised by the legal world. It's devastating to be a Christian that has to walk a path by themselves because their life took a turn into a world that scares people, and not even Christians want you around.
If I want to win, get a lawyer? I've begged God to send me one for the past four years. For whatever reason, I'm in this alone.
Your blog was comforting.. that's all. I just wanted to find Christians.
You are more than welcome here, and we appreciate your insights, seeking and questions. I hope you have found some comfort, and I hope that we can always contribute something to your journey.
Thank you jrb. I subscribe through Bloglines, and I read, but I'll back to lurking now. :-)
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